America was just being overwhelmed with scrap metal. And the reason they were down there at the docks was that they saw W.W.II was looming, and the metals industry makes enormous money when the war is on, so they wanted to get this scrap out of the way, then, and the metals companies in America sold all the scrap to Germany and Japan to develop their armors which they fired back at us fairly immoral thing to do but that was what was going on there, and on account of it getting out of the country, it did not even get into the economic arguments of W.W.II. It does not really begin to show up, just now I am finding that what I found back in the 30's, and we confirmed absolutely when something just beginning people beginning to realize, with all the discussion about ecology and recirculation, this is something I learned way back there.

First let me tell you that the 15% of copper or it is 16% that we don't know where it is rather that is not in continuous circulation, we know just where it is, we know where the munitions ships are in, and that will be brought up in due course, and that will be put to work. In due course we will use these metals. Now every time this metals comes around every 22 years, the interim know-how is so great, you melt it up and you load it up with know-how. You melt it up, load it up with much more know-how. So every time it comes around you have much higher performance for the same amount of pounds. Now you don't have to get into this very deeply to realize, when I begin to talk about capabilities of taking care of everybody, they are predicated on my knowledge of the rates which these metals are coming around, so that I say

Now I go back to Phelps Dodge, and then my giving them this thing about scrap. They didn't know I was going to be right or wrong at the time that I gave it to them. But the thing that was exciting was that the sales department realized that there were no longer the J.P. Morgan Directors on the Board. Management in general in America was freed by the SEC and the government coming in and purging the banks out of them. The Management, itself, said "You know we were always appointed by J.P. Morgan." J.P. Morgan controlled the Board of Directors, the Board of Directors elected the Officers, but the Officers of the Company said "There is nobody here to say anything about this. J.P. Morgan isn't here any more. There's nobody bothering us." So, they had to become self-perpetuating. This is a complete new change in America. It became a new the finance capitalism died, but there was a new kind of capitalism, which was Management Capitalism. And I find this is not particularly well known, and these are things that are very important to understand from a DESIGN SCIENCE viewpoint.

So the next thing, about the Management Capitalist System, they said "We don't care whether the..." these men were handling their sales, they had their own machinery, they were the manufacturers of copper products. They said, "We don't care whether it's scrap or not, it's pure copper." And a lot of people think that scrap means it is not pure copper. It is absolutely pure copper there is nothing wrong with it at all. Just disassociates as a pure element, and so they said "We don't care if it's coming out of scrap. We make our money by every time the wheels go around and we're making a product we are turning pipe and wire, we want the wheels to go round." And so they said, the more inventions that come along, the more changes, the more our wheels go around.

This is this new Management Capitalism realized that change was desirable. And I assure you, since W.W.II, with the two things I gave you about that the whole thing was organized to accommodate change and the new management making its money out of change, suddenly the new management came out of business schools, so if you went into a corporation, and if you couldn't get a change in pretty soon, you weren't going to be a Vice President, I assure you. So I saw an absolute change in the whole world when the money making itself began to vote for change. Now this turns out to be healthier than they know, because again I find, everybody is so specialized, the corporations do not realize the big patterns I am giving you. They don't realize that we are going to have more and more of that metal, until we'll get to the point where we don't have to do any more mining. I assure you. In fact, we have already mined so much, that there are some metals we are learning to use, like Boron, we didn't know what high tensile strength it had. There are a few scarce metals like that, but by and large, I simply say to you, the iron, and the copper and the aluminum we are practically at a point where we don't have to do anymore mining, because every time it's coming around we're getting so much higher performance, we're going to be able to take care of all humanity, and all the children to come, and at very, very high standards.

O.K. I hope you feel also, all of the time you are with me, a sense of a personal responsibility and experience of being allowed to get to such information. I have been incredibly lucky through the years, being in the Navy and the boys that I went to school with and so forth. Knowing the Morgans and knowing very, very powerful people. And I don't like, I'll never be treacherous to friends or so forth, I can't talk this kind of way, really this is such past history, that it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference, but I really did know, I was taken down by the President of the Bank, the Old New York Trust Company, to meet the officers of J.P. Morgan as a kid when I was doing very well in Armour and Company and so forth they saw this bright young man. So I really do know pretty well the ways that decision do get to be made, and I've been in where as a young man, a young salesman being pushed to go over here and do this and do that, and seeing how things really work. So, it's time for a break. We're at 8:30 and I've talked a little longer than usual. We've done two hours now, and I'm going to come back and we're going to get into you're going to look at things going on in Beech Aircraft, and I'm sure your eyes, having heard what I've been talking about will be different. I'm sure as we talk this kind of way, you can't look at things as you did yesterday or before. You are going to really see things or feel them in new ways. Thank you.

(Break)

I'm going to recite you a little short verse and the verse we know was written by a little old lady in England about a couple of hundred years ago.

If all good people were clever,
And all clever people were good,
The world would be nicer than ever
We thought it possibly could.
But somehow, 'tis seldom or never
That the two hit it off as they should;
For the good are so harsh to the clever,
And the clever so rude to the good.

I'm just saying that because I think that real life is somewhere between these two. My grandson was about three and he was driving with me on the freeway in Los Angeles, we were going along about 65 that you are going there, and he was standing in the front of the car with me as I am driving, and he was sort of fooling around with the instruments and so forth, and I was afraid that he'd do something to make things go wrong while with that speed is not a very good time to be fooling around. So, I'd been suggesting that he not do that, and he kept at it, so I said "Jaime do you want to be a naughty boy?" he said "NO!" And I said, "Do you want to be a good boy?" and he said "Newww!" (Everybody really chuckled)

I think that's the way I've felt through my whole life really. And somebody asked me in the interim how I was so lucky to get such good jobs in my life, and I think it's these really were not jobs in the sense, they were when I was on FORTUNE because the Managing Editor wanted me to come there, he wanted to have somebody try to make clear to the FORTUNE tycoon readers some of the emphasize the scientific background they were sort of getting too boastful about how clever they were in making money. He wanted me to do something about that. Russell was a poet himself and a very beautiful Russell Davenport was his name. So he wanted me to come onto FORTUNE and Henry Luce liked the idea. I'd known Henry for quite a long time, and at any rate, we tried it out, but I went there for a purpose, it wasn't in a sense, a job.

So, the things that I've had to do, I certainly am absolutely convinced that there is nothing that you can be asked to do that isn't interesting. In other words, I don't really have inferior jobs, and so forth. I find life is just fascinating from any viewpoint. So whether you are the plumbers helper, and whether you are learning how you wipe a joint or things it's just great. Now, but also, there is a wonderful fun in life, and that human beings are human beings and there are the temptations the human thing is very much in that somewhere between the good and the clever, but it isn't either not my kind of life.