And at the last session, I'd been introduced to her in the first of the morning session. I was tremendously impressed that she appeared three times that day and I gave her a little tensegrity structure to take home, and she said "Would it be possible for you to come on Saturday, to meet my father Mr. Nehru." I had been planning to go to see the Taj Majal on that day, and I said that I had been planning to go to the Taj, but I'll just not do that. And she said "Well, don't tell my father that you did that, because he doesn't like people to come to India and don't go see the Taj," and I said I'll see it another time so it makes up for the deficiency. At any rate, we did meet, and I minus well tell you a little bit about this, because I talked about the meeting with Einstein, and these people are very fascinating to meet.

Mr. Einstein had an extraordinary quality about him. I still don't know how much was psychological within me, but I really felt very much in a presence, in the aura of the man.

Mr. Nehru, came home from the Parliament to see me. I talked to Mrs. Ghandi all morning, I had my maps and we had them out on the floor of the parlor floor there. And then he finally came, and he came into the doorway and she introduced him to me. And he never came any further than the threshold of the main door of the parlor there. And she said, "Please explain your philosophy to my father," and so I said "I have a strategy which is other than political, and I know how extraordinarily well informed you are in the world of politics. " And I explained that I had a policy where, instead of trying to solve problems by political reforms or laws, any reform of man, I was interested in reforming the environment, because the environment itself is continually reforming itself, and I said there are options and I can participate in it, and if I can bring about a favorable environment by virtue of producing artifacts I must never use words, I must actually find a tool that solves the problem makes what is going on obsolete.

As for instance I gave you the other day a bridge over roaring gorge and the people need something on the other side instead of having to keep risking their lives crossing through the roaring gorge, they all spontaneously use a bridge and less people die, and they get what they need more readily.

So that, I said, "This is my strategy," and I felt that it was the objective side of the Nehru's coping with the negative the subjective side. And I talked to him possibly something like 20 minutes or something like that 20 or 25 minutes. I didn't have my watch out so I can't tell you, but it seemed to be kind of that magnitude. And he stood all that time, like this, facing absolutely straight ahead. Not looking at me. There was no way for me to get anything from his eyes. It was very strange to talk to a man standing like that. He was in his beautiful white kurta, and finally, I said, "I think I've said it all." So he just went out. And, I met him of course later on again, but I was told by other engineers and scientists that he had done that with them I've not heard of him doing it with other people. But apparently, when he really wanted to hear you, really cared, this was his discipline of his body. He was absolutely listening. He made it clear to me further that he hadn't missed one iota of one word that I said. He had absolutely straight, clear it was amazing. This man coming from the Parliament with all that going on all kinds of political messes of that kind of a life, to suddenly give himself like this, he really addressed himself to me.

In years, after this Mrs. Ghandi said, whenever you come to India, particularly New Delhi, where their house is, be sure to telephone right away and let us know you're here. And I have done so ever since. And there came a time, there was one meeting that we had with Nehru, at Lake Kashmir, a beautiful place in the Vale of Kashmir, and he had gone there to rest, and I had a number of things I had written with me. When I talked to him that day, I said you just have words, words, words, and you're hear to rest I'd better stop talking. And he said "I like your words." He was a man of very few words, but what he said, you really felt them. And when I was leaving he took me out, we were way out on a hillside in the car, and he took me into the house because Krishna Menon was coming to call and then he introduced me to him. But on the way out, I had these things with me, reprints of magazines and so forth, I said "I have with me a number of things that I have written, but I don't believe you have time to read them..." He said "I read every word of yours I can get a hold of." Now, I say, very few times did he speak to me, but when he did say something it was just like that.

There came a day when I came to New Delhi, and I called the Secretary of Mrs. Ghandi, and the secretary called back in just a couple of minutes and said would I please come right over, and I went over to their the Prime Minister's House, and they have a number of little ante-rooms, I find myself in different rooms as I come into those houses, and she came in very quickly and her eyes were in tears really, and she said "My father has just had a stroke." And, I was very moved that she wanted me to come, but it wasn't as if I really knew her well enough to, but on the other hand she really didn't have, I want you to think about how she had been brought up. Her father in prison most of the time, a political prisoner and some of the time she was in prison. And all of her education, he did all of her education from the prison. His book on World History, a very great work on World History, but it was the book he wrote from putting together letters he wrote to his daughter. She was brought up by him, by his extraordinary writing, and she had been Mahatma Ghandi's flower girl, but she had been in the world of politics all of her life, and she really didn't have anybody too close in there. She was married, had two sons, her husband died.

So, I said, trying to think of what'd you'd say to a lady who's father had just had a stroke a great man. I said, if your father were not to recover, or if he were even to die, would you try to carry on his political work. She said "Oh, No, I would not think of doing so. I really have no aptitude, I really couldn't be more familiar with that world. That's not my world. I'm at my best to be my father's companion, and to carry on in that kind of way, but as for taking any political initiative, I don't have it in me at all." This was a very important thing to hear from her, under those circumstances. I don't think the question had ever come up. Because later on when he did recover for a while, he did get back in Parliament then later on he did die. But when he did die, the Congress Party which he and the others had put together which was an extraordinary accomplishment, because England left them, and I gave you "divide and conquer" nothing could have been more divided than India so it was an extraordinary thing to get a party that would really hold together. And he had great genius there.

When he died his political opponents and other ambitious men there would like to take over, so they thought they could carry on fine, but they found they couldn't. Things became quite clear that the Congress Party was really going to break up completely, the only thing that could hold it together would be just the name, so they asked Indira if she would be willing pro tempore to be acting Prime Minister till they had the next election something to hold things together, so she said she was willing. When I heard that she had done that, I thought about what I'd heard her say under those extraordinary conditions, that I was possibly the only person in the world who knew that she wasn't going in there for any political ambition. She was going in absolutely for dedication to her father, and Mahatma Ghandi and their philosophy. So she went in as a housekeeper, and she has been in there that way ever since.

Every time I go to India I see her. She usually gives me, at least she likes having me around about an hour or so. And I sat with her as the Pakistani had their first air attack on India at that time. I've been at some very critical moments there. So she'd like to have me there, and she'd like me really to talk about other things.

And, now, I was asked to give the third Nehru memorial lecture, and I can't remember what year it was, now, certainly half a dozen years ago, and maybe eight years ago. And, I've had very interesting experiences in India.

Now, that came about, my talking about that because I was talking to you about my grand strategy and the idea about developing artifacts. I saw that there was nothing to stop the little individual from developing artifacts, and particularly if you are really going to see what some of the big problems are and one of the big problems was quite clearly I had become excited by my navy experience, and realizing that we were doing more with less and the more with less of the navy was what we called "high secret," this was the most highly classified information in the world. What you could do more with the same or more with less, when it came to contact, and I realized the more with less you could get where the little airplane, then was sinking big battle ships "It could be, I said that, "Malthus was really wrong. He didn't know that foods would be preserved." I spoke to you about that the other day. So I also, then saw, that on the there was the possibility of doing so much with so little that we might be able to take care of everybody. And the whole raison d'etre of politics themselves, war, weapons would actually be obsolete. This seemed to be something to really shoot for the little individual, because I saw that it was full of soft spots because nobody had ever really taken, what they call there is "weaponry" and I invented the word called "livingry" nobody is trying to see what would happen if we took care of "livingry," because they said there is never going to be enough to go around, so money just doesn't get spent that way it's just useless it only gets spent in this negative way.